Really? — SPOILERS

The spoiler tag is for the three of you who don’t know how The Hobbit ends.

Also, my bullshit detector is turned on high lately, so forgive me if my tone sounds snippy. I’m actually smiling.

I just read this below at TheOneRing and certainly have two cents to contribute.

Debunking that Hobbit movie rumour about Thorin Oakenshield

May 30, 2014 at 11:23 pm by Demosthenes

Many people have written to us over the last five or so days about a story that has begun circulating around the internet concerning Thorin Oakenshield and the final Hobbit film, The Battle of the Five Armies.

Frankly, we hoped this story would die a quiet death because it is simply not credible. However, a couple of web media outlets have picked it up so somewhat reluctantly here we are quashing a rumour that simply has no credence at all.

Seeing as this is obviously leading us into spoiler territory, if you are avoiding them or have not read the book (I know there are a few of you out there), then look away now.

The original source of this rumour is a website called Ecumenical News (I know it has subsequently popped up on The Examiner too), which posted the following:

…a few details have surfaced regarding the story line of The Battle of Five Armies. It has been reported that the film will follow Tolkien’s book, though one character who died in the book, Thorin Oakenshield, will remain alive.

This rumour is patently untrue.

The rest here

(emphasis mine)

“Patently” is a strong word. I know TORn is uptight with Peter Jackson, but this idea that the death scene has been filmed, so it precludes Thorin living does not take into account that Peter Jackson and Warner Bros. can change their minds. Oh yeah, they can change their minds. Did we get three movies instead of two? Or did I dream that?

And speaking of rocks, didn’t the initial idea of two movies comprising The Hobbit series stretch the limits of common sense, and the idea of three movies was lunacy? I guess it’s all in how you look at it and when. We’re now staring down the likely advent of a third Hobbit movie into the billion dollar club. Somehow it doesn’t look so nutty anymore.

Anyway, I have a feeling this may not be just a bunch of swoony Thorin fans driving a rumor, and I could be so ridiculously wrong, but it’s hard to swallow this opinion from TORn that it’s just not possible Thorin could live. It’s the movies! Anything can happen.

Plus, who’s it going to hurt if the masses have more opportunities to spend more money on drool over photos like this:


For the record, I would prefer that PJ follow the book with respect to Thorin’s story, so I am not part of the petition — either in reality or in spirit.

Also, Stephen Goodwin is my favorite writer at TORn despite his opinion in this piece. :)

Photo snaffled from


  1. As much as I do not wish to see another character of Richard’s die onscreen (I can’t really look forward to the final film very much because of that *sob*), I am also not comfortable with changing Tolkien’s original story so drastically (and allowing Thorin to live would be pretty drastic, IMHO). Just my two cents . . .

  2. People are jesting, surely. Changing Tolkein’s words? Ye Gods! I reckon PJ (and RA for what’s its worth) would rather die than change the narrative. Besides, when all is said and done, this is a movie about who? Thorin? Not the way I read the novel. It’s about a little man called Bilbo… and ever should remain so.

  3. *LOL* Yes, they’ve changed their minds a few times. But I still don’t think that rumour is anything more than a rumour.

    You wrote: “I guess it’s all in how you look at it and when.” When? Oh, you mean: Nice timing for it, keeps interest alive? *gg*

  4. People didn’t want to believe that Warner Bros/PJ were going to change the title of the final film – and look how that turned out. Note that the studio can’t advertise/promote as in previous years due to the new NATO stipulations. (North American Theater Owners) No trailers until 150 days prior to release. No promos (standees, etc…) until 120 day mark.

    These films are adaptations based on the text of the Hobbit and the LOTR appendices. However, there have been other news reports (such as additional pick-ups this year) which didn’t pan out. In many cases 1 + 1 = 3.

    An apocryphal quote: “Changed ending of the Hobbit 3 confirmed by the murder of director Peter Jackson by none other than one of the stars, Richard Armitage. Armitage confessed, ‘Peter was an inspired director, but I’ve loved the book since childhood. I have died in so many roles, but Thorin’s death was one of my greatest performances. To find out it had been cut from the film pushed me over the edge. I reenacted a scene I had done for Spooks series 9. Before I knew it, I had killed him.’ Armitage went onto to comment that at least he had the opportunity to prepare for his upcoming trial via his role as John Proctor in the Crucible at the Old Vic this past summer.”

  5. LOL!! Poor Richard, I could imagine him *wanting* to kill someone if denied such a splendid cinematic moment for his character. And I have to say, he does die onscreen so—beautifully. Thinking of Sir Guy *sob* I take solace in the fact I am pretty certain PJ won’t turn Thorin from a flawed-but-nonetheless heroic figure, into an amoral, whiny mass-murdering fraud a la John Bateman. (I did some nasty things to the writers of Spooks in my own little scenario, muhahahahahaha).

  6. SaraO – any idea where your “apocryphal quote” comes from?
    I would love to know, as the only reasons I can think of to change Thorin’s ending are potentially related to marketing, not narrative.

    But I have to concede Frenz’s point as well – look how many “unthinkable” changes have already been made….

    I tell you what…. I don’t know what the drop-dead time frames are related to production of this movie, but if anyone discovers Richard makes a trip to NZ on the QT after Crucible is over, there will certainly be fuel for the fire, won’t there?
    Thanks for bringing this to us, Frenz.

  7. (I’m skimming more than reading here, perhaps the apocryphal quote came from your own fertile imagination? :)

  8. I find it interesting these petitions have cropped up the last several weeks, and there are numerous petitions. Now we have two sites reporting on a possible change. Sounds like marketing to me, because I tend to think these things are not due to spontaneous generation, I.e., fan fervor.

    Ask yourself what would make this last movie really interesting before its release? Maybe the idea that the ending is not a foregone conclusion.


  9. I would not put it past Warner Bros. or Peter Jackson to have RichardArmitage fly to New Zealand as a red herring. LOL! There is so much money at stake that would be nothing for them to do.

  10. Wow, you’re a great chess player, Frenz! Lots of money at stake, and plenty to throw at it as well.
    If PJ & Co. actually do take the risk of doing this, it seems quite frustrating for Richard though….all his character deaths that either didn’t matter quite so much (or WORSE – naming no names but rhyming with Pukas Forth ;) ….and this one so PIVOTAL (and potentially award-worthy-!) to end up in the bin – ?!?!!
    Even an alternate ending for the EE would only be throwing a bone to the Tolkienites…. it wouldn’t really “compensate” him, unless they really figure out how to make Thorin’s survival more compelling than his death. (And I don’t mean monetary compensation, but career-wise.)

  11. I actually don’t think he’s going to survive. I just think the idea he might is possibly being floated by tptb.

  12. I tend to agree with you…. I think they love to stir the pot!
    Still 6 long months (to the fans anyway) from release.

  13. Or maybe it’s just fan wishful thinking that’s picked up lazy media.
    Iirc, There and Back Again was only a title for the second movie of two, not the third of 3. I have no idea why anyone would get the panties in a wad over The Battle of Five Armies, since it is the title of the last chapter of The Hobbit and a lot more authentic than some of the other changes.

  14. Another possibility rumored…Thorin and Galadriel fall in love, get married and adopt Bilbo. JK, maybe. With PJ in charge, anything is possible? :)

  15. That tramp Galadriel. And here I thought she would be happy with Celeborn *and* Gandalf. ;-)

  16. yeah but at long last our guy will get the girl. Maybe I’ll start a new career in fanfic…after, there is so little of it.

  17. I don’t discount the idea of Thorin surviving the Battle of Five Armies if PJ sees that it works for his film, but I personally am looking forward to Thorin’s extremely emotional death scene. I’m sure RA will be overwhelming.

  18. I’m looking forward to it too. He does do a great death scene. To date, Lucas North was the only character that frustrated me with his death.

  19. Totally understand! Lucas should NEVER have died!!

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