Sometimes You Can’t Help Sounding Like a Frau

Lee Pace and Richard Armitage together at lastPhoto from a fundraising event in NZ in 2012.

This whole Richard Armitage/Lee Pace thing really is a bit comical and disappointing. It’s not the thought of the validity of this relationship being proved or disproved that engenders my response, and it’s not really about these two men. It’s about the larger issue of this maniacal need to assign something sexual to people who are together in seemingly commonplace situations. I’m not strictly thinking of the park bench scenario but of all the scenarios that have somehow been inferred as portending a sexual relationship. Oh, sure there could be a sexual relationship (I’ve never ruled that out), but I’m talking about the “evidence” on which the conclusion it’s sexual has been drawn:

Let me recap:

  • Going to see a movie together
  • Attending a fundraiser with a large group
  • Attending each other’s performances
  • Eating dinner together
  • Eating dinner together with family present (gasp)
  • Wearing each other’s clothes (oh damn, that’s so sexual)
  • Staying in each other’s homes while visiting (don’t grown, middle-aged men know they cannot do this without it being sexual)
  • Visiting each other during the holidays (definitely up to something sexual)
  • Refusing to answer questions about private life (oh shit; trying to hide something sexual)
  • At least one of the parties playing homosexual characters (yep, definitely a sexual relationship going on)

Maybe I’m naive, but can two people of the same sex who are middle-aged and single actually be close friends without someone else assigning a sexual connotation to their relationship?

A few weeks ago a friend of mine was over to visit, and she wanted me to see something on Facebook. She pulled it up, and then we ended up looking at a mutual friend’s photos, and this mutual friend had all sorts of vacation pics with another woman, and my friend said to me later, “I think she’s probably gay.” I asked, “What do you base that on?” The answer was the vacation pictures with the other woman, and that there were no pictures of men. Nothing else. Just the fact that these two women had been on vacation together on three occasions. Oh, and also that they’re both single and middle-aged.

Sadly, I’ve heard people make sweeping statements based on less, and this kind of assessment seems to occur much more often in the last several years. Can’t people of the same sex just be close friends anymore? Probably not since everything seems to be sexualized. That’s sad to me because friendships are so precious, and how frustrating to think that if you’re middle-aged, single and hanging out on a regular basis with someone of the same sex, then there is the specter that it is sexual. What a drain.

And even gay people are tired of the myth (see #3 and #4 and maybe #7) that if they are around people of the same sex it must be sexually motivated.

Then again, maybe it’s good for a laugh. James Franco seemed to give that appearance. Of course he was also promoting a project.

I did say that speculation was a favorite past time, and I still stand by that, but I also like to be reasonable unless, like Franco, I’m unreasonable to get a laugh or make a point.

note: Frau is a term commonly assigned to a certain set of fangirl and often used as an epithet on a particular gay gossip site. Frankly, I’ve found it uproariously funny when I’ve read it.

185 Comments

  1. Thank you. I am a “middle-aged”single female and I appreciate your assessment. What’s even more comical is the friends that want to “protect me” by pointing it out that “I may appear gay because I hang out so much with my girlfriends” think what you may, at the end of the day, it’s my life (like these celebrities) and what and who we want to hang out with to do “stuff” with is our personal business. Don’t hate either way. Focus more on your life and not so much trying to prove or disapprove someone’s else life.

  2. Damn…seems I’m a lesbian and didn’t know it…this might make RA my Judy Garland! ;)

    On a more serious note this is one of those things that frustrates me very much! It is laughable but exasperating. I remember British holidaymakers in Tunisia going on about how all the local men were gay because they kissed each other!

  3. Well said.

  4. I’m Frau…http://youtu.be/NqcE3gb9mBM :D

  5. LOL!

  6. My wonderful former art teacher and mentor, now retired, owns a lovely historic old home which has a portion of it converted into a small apartment. The school librarian, who is also a divorced female, rents it from her. She confided to me “some people assume we are gay. I just needed a place to live, we’ve been friends for years and she had the unit available!” If they were gay, I’d have no problem with that, but folks shouldn’t go around assuming “facts not in evidence.”
    If people tended to their own business as much as they want to tend to everyone else’s, the world might be a somewhat better place. Honestly, I do not understand this mania to prove or disprove certain aspects of other people’s lives.

  7. I don’t get the mania either. Sure I’ve been curious about Richard Armitage’s love life, but I don’t have enough information to make a statement about it, and I’m not inclined to get any information. Of course that sounds like a Frau in denial. ROFLOL!

  8. BTW, those two ladies who went on vacation happened to have been friends for decades. One of them was cheated on by her husband and divorced a few years ago. The other one was widowed a few yea ago. They had never been able to travel when they were young, and they decided to do it together instead of going alone or trying to find a man to go with them.

  9. Kathryn, I hate that people even have to think about that when they’re out having a good time with friends. Unnecessary baggage heaped on by people who don’t have enough to ponder.

    Thanks, Kathleen. I actually wrote this before the park bench photo, but I couldn’t let that incident pass without publishing this.

  10. Welcome, jcjm1619. :) I’m sorry that’s something you even have to think about.

  11. Well, I *have* been told by an expert that I have “classic German feet,” so if the shoe fits . . . Seriously, I keep thinking some people really need to get a life rather than obsessing over the personal lives of others, whether it’s a celebrity or their neighbor down the street. And if all my same-sex friends that have traveled together are gay, than boy, we must be a mecca for gay people here in south Alabama . . . *shakes my head*

  12. Up until now I have stayed away from any thread that discusses RA’s sexuality- mainly because of the sweeping statements and vehemence with which both sides assert their point of view. I’m just not interested in debate that relies on shouting the other side down, calling them names or fabricating evidence to support individual fantasies ( and don’t even get me started on photoshopping.)

    As for people of the same gender travelling, eating and living together – well I must be such an innocent because it never occurred to me that this is evidence of lustful behaviour. At what age does this rule commence? I’m concerned because I have two daughters who regularly dine out and travel with their friends and have mass girly sleepovers IN MY HOUSE!! And a son who lives with three other men! Goodness me, I can see I have been quite naive…

  13. ..well put,by all above, I also am now “middle-aged” and divorced, and my friend is married, (beens friends for decades now!!) but she and I go out a lot to different events, and have a week’s holiday once a year, (an Elvis do, that her hubby will not go too!!)!!) and have never given it any thought…if we did not do this, I for one would be stuck in quite abit, this way I get to go to the things I want in company I enjoy, not only with her, but other friends too, I still do alot on my own, but it’s nice to have my different girl friends for outings, and am sure RA feels similar eh, and it’s up to him how he feels and spends his time….won’t make me like him any the less..lol..I’m more than happy with the hug I got from him..lol…we all get to a certain age, and are either married or divorced, or single though choice, and if we did not have our friends, then it would be very lonely being on you own all the time eh….love your writing ..looking forward to your next piece….x

  14. First timer here and I have to confess something, I never realised before: I’m a lesbian. Yes, phew – what a relief. I’m single for couple of years (all my exes are beards), I’m doing good so far, Prince Charming hasn’t come around yet, and I’m travelling the world with one of my best girl friends. Hell, we even share beds then. We know our families, we spent holidays together and we take care of each other since her prince didn’t yet come on a white horse either.

    It’s always good to know that strangers seem to know other people’s lifes. Thanks for your post, Frenzy. On a more serious note: The whole RichLee thing is built on nothing.

  15. Agree with you about speculation, but I think the pic is a manip.

  16. I agree with you 100%, but until the question is resolved one way or another, people are going to continue to speculate. It is none of their business, and yet he is a celebrity so it comes with the territory that people will be curious about his private life. Apparently there is no girlfriend (?) and he is not seen squiring women about, so that probably adds to the questions. If he is gay or bisexual, it certainly wouldn’t reduce his sex appeal so far as I’m concerned, but I admit that I’m not a fan in the true sense, having reserved my idolatry for another. When I think about that person and whether it would change my views to learn that he is gay, I can say a conclusive no, but that’s because I’ve been a fan long enough to get beyond the initial infatuation.

  17. I could’ve not said it better myself, but it’s what I’ve been trying to tell people. I’m a single middle-aged woman too and always hanging out with my girlfriends. In that case, I’ve been a lesbian most of my life! I don’t think so! People are always speculating the wrong ideas. Like I’ve always said; If you live, let others live as well.

  18. I have a rule: No one is allowed in my sexual life other than my partner. And it’s none of my business about anyone else’s sexuality.

  19. I guess all those people that go out on dates, that mention their SO to other people, even strangers, and even publicly get married also feel that their sexual life and the gender they prefer is no-one’s business?

  20. I think the speculation going on is a normal response to what has become a curiosity. Sometimes I’ve felt it’s a manipulated response. I have nothing to base that on. It’s just a gut feeling sometimes.

    I really don’t have a problem with others making up their minds about what they believe is the case with these two. To reiterate, what I’m addressing in this post isn’t really about Richard Armitage and Lee Pace but something that is wearying to a lot of people — the increasing assessment that all or most close relationships are sexual.

  21. Brilliant post Frenz!

  22. Great post, Frenz, and so many sensible comments have been made here by others.
    Does my complimenting a group of women mean I’m a lesbian? If so, any advice on how to break it to my hubby? ;-)

  23. I don’t know, when I look at RA’s circumstances I tend not to compare his situation with mine or those of female middle aged single fans, I tend to compare it is with other actors that are middle aged, low-key and possibly even have worked with RA on the Hobbit or Spooks or other projects.

  24. I understand that Jane and think several of us tend to do that comparison with respect to RA, but I don’t want to lose sight of the fact that two people who are close and of the same sex can actually just be friends. It is possible no matter what someone does for a living.

  25. Again, this post is not really so much about Richard Armitage and Lee Pace as it’s about us, the public and our propensity to go from 0 to 100 on sexualizing a relationship.

  26. Oh, I absolutely agree that two people of the same gender can have a close platonic friendship. Even if they have such good chemistry that it inspires some fans to “ship” them. Actually it happens all the time and usually shipping two actors that are good friends does not lead to serious real life gay rumours.

  27. Yep, I’ve seen fans do that with lots of other actors, but I’m not sure I can make the statement “does not lead to serious real life gay rumors.” It seems that’s happened in quite a few cases which were ultimately proved they were gay in some cases and not in others.

    The point is that in the absence of the opposite sex as a romantic relationship, the public is too often making the fall back relationship homosexual. This is becoming more true whether someone is an actor or celebrity or not. Very frustrating and a helluva lot of overhead to deal with in a friendship.

    None of that is to say that Richard Armitage is heterosexual. I honestly don’t know.

  28. So here I am, yet another woman who found out she was gay by applying the criteria above! I don’t care about Richard Armitage’s sexuality, and wish him a happy life. Am I curious? You bet. But speculating is seriously stupid.

  29. What is bothersome is this idea that a friendship is a sexual relationship when people are not overt about their love interest. What utter bullshit and bullshit brought on by the media barraging us with almost every damn thing being sexual. I’m weary of that and what it is doing and will potentially do to friendships. When I say this, I’m not even thinking about Richard Armitage. I’m thinking of the world my daughters and son are going into and how these wrongheaded ideas about people will affect them and their friends.

  30. I’ve got to go to work, but I’ll be back and hopefully to talk about something more fun. In fact, yeah, it will be to talk about something much more fun. :D

  31. I totally agree with you. I’m a single woaman who has no relationship for a long time bc of a horrible man. I go on holiday with my 2 female best friends. Well I guess I’m lesbian. For RA, I don’t know if he’s gay or not. But you’ve got 2 cute and talented men, not married with no kids, which is strange for most of people. Some people say the photo in NYC is a fake, not sure, but they don’t seem in love lol. I don’t know what to think but friendship exists

  32. And 2 woamen cannot spend holidays togeter, 2 men cannot spend time together and a man and a woman, who are just friends, cannot spend time together. So everybody sleeps together. BTW, some people say that RA had dinner with LP’s family and other cast members and went to see Promethéus aloso wtih co stars

  33. Welcome, Frenchcitizen :)

    I’m not so sure it’s that strange anymore. But I understand people viewing it that way.

    As for the photo, I do not think it’s fake. I know some do, and that’s fine. It’s my opinion that it’s not fake for several reasons (some technical and some not).

  34. Yeah, I think I’ve heard that as well about his comings and goings on the dinner and a movie. Not sure ’cause I’ve heard a ton.

    Whatever the case, it is completely immaterial to me in liking Richard Armitage. I know that’s a PC thing to say, and I hate PC, but in this case, I guess I am PC. :D

    Catch you all later. Gotta go make some bacon.

  35. This has been the best thing I’ve read all morning. :) Thanks, Frenz & Company!

  36. Heavens to Betsy, what MUST people be thinking when they see me & my sister out together??? We go rambling on the weekends sometimes, just her, my sons, and I (trust me, there are times I prefer her company to hubby’s, but that’s another story). And she & I look just unalike enough, I’m sure, to start speculation. The fact that she treats my boys like they her’s probably only adds to it.

    :D

  37. I do agree that the media and much of the world views almost all relationships as potentially sexual. That’s very irritating. It lessens or taints the concept of genuine friendship. granted, I think that friendship is the best beginning for great sexual relationship. but for people to view all friendships in that light is nonsense.

    And all this hyper focus on what everybody else may or may not be doing is really none of our business.

  38. oops.. dont try to post a message on a tiny phone with big fingers. that last sentence should be “none of our business. ”

    Frenz, can you delete the double post?

  39. I have close relatives who are middle-aged and single, and it’s painful when people make statements to the effect of, “Why don’t you just get married?” Seriously, they don’t sell spouses at Walmart! :) Perry’s classic post on this topic is a must-read: http://armitageagonistes.wordpress.com/2014/07/05/why-arent-you-married/
    And for any of the reasons she mentions and more, if I were single I’d prefer to socialize and def to travel with another woman partly because it is so much simpler. Speaking as a woman without a gay bone in my body, the sexual dynamic opens up a whole host of implications & considerations that would give pause to – “is this worth the possible hassle or pain” – even just briefly. If I survive my DH, I may choose NOT to embark on a retraining process – for a new man’s sake OR mine!
    Otoh, I get it that performers who are good-looking enough to perhaps literally “have anyone they want” may or may not live the same way as us lesser beings. I think it’s a valid reason to wonder, but not a valid reason to conclude that we actually know.

  40. BTW, Frenz (or if someone else knows) – where was this group photo made?

  41. It is tremendously irritating when all people can speculate about two people seen together, that they’re having a sexual life. God knows what people think of me and my sister, and our friends when we hangout together…. I’ve been told many times before that when it comes to a man and a woman, it’s not a friendship but a sexual attraction, in which I think it’s pure crap! I do believe in two people having that special connection to where it almost may seem as a sexual thing going on, but the mutual feeling and respect towards one another and the trust that develops along the way, it’s what makes the friendship unique. Let it be a friendship between two men or two women or a man and a woman, there’s no wrong on going to the movies together, sharing clothes, dinning together or spending time with each other’s family. Whatever the reason two people are brought together through friendship, I believe that it’s no one’s business to speculate that there’s any sexual content going on.

  42. Dear Mrs Frenz (or should that be Liebe Frau Frenz?),

    I have a problem.
    Around last New Years Day I was visiting a female friend. I stayed in her place for about a week. We went to the cinema to watch DOS together. We also went to restaurants together. We even embraced when I arrived and we embraced again when I said good-bye.

    But: There is no photographic proof of any of this!!!

    How can I be sure whether I am a lesbian or not?

    Sincerely
    *confused*

  43. Seriously?

    Years ago I had a (male) boss who was far too curious about the private lives of his (female) employees. You could probably say that it was bordering on sexual harassment but I don’t think any of us women saw it that way. It was just getting on our nerves.

    Whatever. I didn’t like this man. He was my boss but not a friend or pal. So I usually just nodded or said something like “Aha” or “Hm-hm” when he was talking but tried not to tell him anything about me.

    When he realised that I didn’t talk about the things he was curious to hear, he obviously thouth that there must be a reason why I wasn’t talking about my private life. So he tried telling stories so maybe in turn I would start talking about my love life. I recall a story he once told: About a girl he knew (he said). The girl was sexual harassed when she was a child and because of that she avoided sexual relationships for a long time. “But when she finally tried”, he said, “she realised how good it felt. And after that she couldn’t get enough of it!” Yeah, right. (Any questions why I didn’t like this person?)

    When I still didn’t talk he finally asked one of my colleagues if she thought if I was a lesbian. (Because she as a straight woman would know for sure the very moment she met a gay woman. The same way he as a man would know for sure if a man was gay. LOL!)

  44. Oh, about that former boss of mine: Don’t worry, it soungs worse than it was.

    It’s just that: WHEN he started that subject it was getting on everybody’s nerves. I’m not saying he talked ONLY about this.

  45. So is this post based on the photo above? Where is this photo from? I guess I’m so behind in RA news, had no idea he and Lee did half of the listed things above together lol!
    I don’t think people assume anyone’s gay just because they’re traveling together. Lee and Richard are more high profile that’s why anyone even cares.
    They might be in a relationship (shrugs) who knows. I don’t think there are any conspiracies here, and I doubt they will give up any info about their personal lives any time soon. So we’ll be pretty much in the dark for awhile.
    I’m more interested in Richard’s possible project news–now that’s something to discuss! :-)

  46. Although I do believe the picture in the park is legit, this photo you’ve posted looks totally fake, unless Richard shrunk several inches, and the very tall Lee feels the need to strain his neck to be seen over a bunch of short people all of a sudden. :D Not to mention their coloring and lighting seem different to everyone else’s.

    Thanks to Joanna for the Frau Blucher clip. My favorite line in that movie is “HE VAS MY BOYFRIEEEND!” :D

    If I had a dollar every time I’ve been called a lesbian….. Usually by the guys I won’t date because I’m holding out for better and don’t give the milk away to just anybody. haha

    It’s a normal, psychological, human response to want the object of your desire/crush to swim in the same pond as you (and sadly not atypical for some to try to force them into that pond). It is also sadly common for some to assign the object of their desire to another pond when they have been rejected by said object. Yet it still surprises me somewhat that so many people are quick to assign ordinary best friend behavior to romance. They obviously must never have had platonic best friends before.

  47. Confused – hahahahaha love it!
    Hedgehogess – NO question why you didn’t like THAT idiot!
    Wouldn’t matter to me that it wasn’t his ONLY subject, it would be “enough” for me about the 2nd time he brought that garbage up!! He was probably hitting on ALL of you, assuming that several of you would find him hot and be open to it (those types always think they are chick magnets :P )

  48. Hedgehogess,

    You may indeed be a lesbian. :D

  49. Hedgehogess and Mrs. Darcy,

    If my two oldest daughters had a nickel for every time they’ve been assumed to be lesbian (simply because the don’t sleep around), they could buy a really nice meal. LOL!

  50. The picture in this post is completely legit and taken from a fundraising event in NZ in 2012. You can read about it here and see a video.

  51. The validity of the photo is in my reply to CardiganGirl.

  52. jahaira,

    It certainly can be frustrating.

  53. Beverly,

    Just took care of it! :D

  54. Thanks, MaryJane. I just hope that it doesn’t create a debate about RA’s sexuality. I do not want to pour fuel on that fire but rather just make a comment about how the public is too quick to try to assume something about someone’s love life — either way.

  55. LadyGrayse,

    I totally hear you about hanging out with hubby. A good friend and fellow RA fan and I have talked about going to the UK to tour because our husbands DO NOT want to do this. We would probably have a better time without them anyway. And gasp! we’ve already made one trip away together and had our picture taken and no men around. LOL!

  56. SH, Very well said! I will have to read that article too!

  57. I hope I haven’t missed anyone. I am literally looking at this while I’m running a job on my system. It’s times like these I’m glad I work for myself. phew!

  58. Sorry Frenz, Just trying to clarify. The picture you’ve posted at the top of this blog article came from where? Because it is not from the Christchurch theater fundraiser that Ian did in summer 2012 that the whole cast went to that you linked to. Lee and Ian are wearing different clothes. http://thorinoakenshield.net/2012/06/24/ian-mckellen-and-the-hobbit-cast-on-stage-in-wellington/

  59. See how much attention I paid to this! You’re right; they have on different clothes, but the point is still the same. Does it really matter where this picture was taken? It proves nothing either way except that these two guys were with a large group.

  60. It doesn’t even matter if that photo is a manipulation. It still proves nothing either way.

  61. Thanks Frenz…..I wondered if it was from NZ since I saw Sir Ian, but not sure since only saw the 3 of them from TH. Didn’t even occur to me that it wasn’t legit, since you posted it :)

  62. It may well be a fake, but it still doesn’t mean anything, which makes its presence in this post even better. LOL!

  63. Oh, my screen refreshed now ….. so no big deal. I just didn’t know if you knew where the pic came from, since I haven’t seen it before.

  64. You’re so funny :) Is this a test? :D
    “Convenience sample of RA fans upon exposure to new unsubstantiated photo responded a) b) c)….” giggles

  65. Sorry, I wasn’t trying to make a big deal about whether this particular photo was fake or not, it’s just that photos like this have been pulled up across the fandom to make other people’s arguments about coupledom, and I just thought that particular photo was a bad example. hahaha And your right, if it is a fake, then it does make your argument stronger.

  66. It was from a show called Rock the Ballet. Most of the people are cast members of that show and I think one of them posted this pic. I also seem to remember another pic from that event that proved that RA hadn’t been photoshopped into it. LP’s father and brother are also part of the group.

  67. no problem, Darcy. I realize what I did. I grabbed the wrong photo when I was making the post. I have now tagged the photo correctly in the post and also inserted the one I originally intended.

  68. Oops, didn’t see you already edited your post.

  69. No problem, Jane. The point is that this photo (and I assume it’s completely legit) does nothing to bolster an argument either way. Two guys hanging out together (even if one is gay) does not necessarily = a sexual relationship.

  70. I certainly agree that none of the NZ sightings and pics are particularly significant. They were all supposed to be a big happy family, become friends and hang out together. Though it is interesting that RA prefers the bloody elven king over his dwarf buddies.

  71. Speaking of fakes, here’s one that’s damn good with only one problem, RA and LP had an ocean separating them at the time their individual photos were taken.

    a damn good fake

  72. Here we are the fight between those who want them to be a couple and the others

  73. Jane,

    I guess I don’t get your logic. Why would the actors playing the dwarfs necessarily be more appealing on a friendship level than other actors (including Lee Pace)? I honestly don’t understand that. Nothing against the dwarf actors when I say that. It just makes no sense to me that there has to be more of an affinity for them than other actors in the cast.

  74. I think that what I’m taking exception to is the maniacal need to make them or anyone who hangs out together to be a sexual relationship. And often the logic is thin or non-existent. No offense to Jane, but her last comment has thin logic in it.

  75. she’s just trying to tell you that she’s sure they are gay and a couple

  76. The Rock a Ballet picture was shared on Jordan Lombardi’s pinterest (?) account. I put the effort and searched for it. There is another one where RArmitage is standing in the background whilst SIMcKellen was posing for a picture. Funny is, I only saw it recently, Evangeline Lilly was there, too – everyone is focusing on LP/RA but no one notice other Hobbit cast member when in it. ;-)

  77. Frenchcitizen,

    Which is fine. It’s her opinion, but I think the logic would not stand up to a real debate. She would be slaughtered.

  78. Since I have no desire to make a bloodbath out of those who come with poor logic, I’m not going to go there, and honestly, it would not be fun and would be a Pyrrhic victory meaning it would alienate fans and create dissension over something that to me is not important enough to create dissension over, and the irony could be that Richard Armitage is gay however thin the evidence may be. LOL!

    Bottom line: I have no need to prove it either way, but it’s hard not to call bullshit on poor logic.

  79. In fairness, Jane has made many very logical and great observations over the years. I just don’t think these last few are meaty enough to heed as valid. Raise a question? Sure. Prove a point? No.

  80. Oh, it was just an observation. RA spent every day for eighteen months with his fellow dwarves, bonding with them and sharing the burden of the heavy hot costumes, but he only had a few (though intense) scenes with LP, who wasn’t even in NZ for that long. You kind of would have expected one of the dwarves or maybe Martin Freeman would become his best friend.

  81. you’re right but you know people want to come and argue about the subject. I don’t know if RA is gay or straight, but I don’t understand why some fangirls really want him to be gay and are sure about it

  82. Jane,

    Fair enough, and I hear what you’re saying, but have you ever hit it off with someone as a close friend and you barely knew them? I have. My best friend and the woman who was my maid of honor at my wedding was someone I became instant friends with. Literally within a few hours of meeting each other. We were both working in an organization, and we met one night at a meeting, and we became best friends and remain close to this day. Yet I knew many of the other people for much longer and worked more closely with them. In fact, I never worked with her in the organization. So yeah, it’s possible that Lee and Richard just meshed as friends very instantly. But that’s my observation and based on my experiences which do not make them necessarily correct in assessing RA’s and LP’s relationship.

  83. I think Jane is someone who often plays devil’s advocate, and I have no problem with that, and she does raise some salient questions. I just don’t think they make the argument for RA being gay.

  84. oh it’s not just about Jane. and btw, RA said he missed Martin Freeman’s sense of humour, so we could guess they are friends

  85. I’m glad that wasn’t just about Jane. I wasn’t sure, so thanks for clarifying.

  86. you’re welcome and good night

  87. :)

    And I need to get back to work. Hope you all have a good evening!

  88. I certainly won’t base my assumption about RA’s sexual orientation on his friendship with LP. After all Patrick Steward is best buddies with Ian McKellen. He even officiated his wedding.

  89. I hear you. I think bottom line that we all go off of our own experience and gut instincts. And sometimes those are dead on. So I’m not saying you’re wrong in your assessment at all. You may be totally correct.

  90. In fact, I’ll tell you candidly that I often go with my gut instincts, and when I go against them, I regret it. So I hope it’s clear I’m not dismissing gut instincts. Everyone has to do and think what they feel strongly about. I just don’t want to confuse that with a logical argument.

  91. What’s fascinating to me about this subject is that my gut instincts are thoroughly confused, and I seldom am confused about things like this.

  92. Now I really, really need to get back to work. I’m in the middle of billing, and this is probably the most important thing I do. I’ll be glad when I can justify paying someone else to do billing. ;p

  93. We are all on the outside looking in, where the only ‘evidence’ we have for the relationships is the little that the people themselves say, or the over-analysed photos, some of which photos which were provided by people who had a particular agenda in mind when they posted them on their tumblrs or facebook pages.
    For example, Richard seems to be quite close to Jed Brophy and Graham McTavish, possibly also Orlando and Ian McKellen. Lee is close to Evangeline. Both Ian and Evangeline are in that photo of the dance fundraiser, although apparently invisible to some in their desire to prove an agenda. (Lee’s brother lived in New Zealand for a while; I believe that he got a job with one of Peter Jackson’s companies, so he might already have been living there during the fundraiser period).

    ‘Oh, I absolutely agree that two people of the same gender can have a close platonic friendship. Even if they have such good chemistry that it inspires some fans to “ship” them. Actually it happens all the time and usually shipping two actors that are good friends does not lead to serious real life gay rumours.’

    I beg to disagree. It is more common than anyone would expect, particularly when the fans themselves are the ones to spread the rumors. About 10 years ago, fans who believed in the ships of the lotr actors were not above writing to gossip columnist Ted Casablanca to ask for validation, or even contacting Sir Ian directly to ask him about the sexual orientation of his co-stars. They made enough fuss to get their ship mentioned by a major British newspaper.
    How is that different from tipping off gay gossip sites now? (This was openly acknowledged at one of the sites: ‘the fine users of Tumblr … turn their dashboards into Speculation City …. *according to a number of tipsters that wrote in*’). Or, posting in every group related to TH on fb with a link to the gossip and the assertion it was true?

    If you want to compare the situation of the actors of TH with the actors of lotr, particularly the ones who played the fellowship, you would find dozens of photos of them hanging out together, going to each others’ houses, performances, etc. (Some of the photos were snitched from flickr, just as Lee’s family photos were snitched from his relatives fb page. There’s nothing new under the sun). While the hobbits seemed especially close because of the long hours of prosthetics,, they were and still remain good friends with Viggo and Orlando, who played a human and an elf. Viggo and Orlando also had their own separate friendship.
    Virtually every one of the younger cast members were shipped together and there are at least two distinct groups of true believers in the relationships: domlijahs and viggorlis.
    You can see the same pattern with the stars of Supernatural and Harry Potter. There are possibly even true believers in the Harry Potter ships, and there most definitely are in the Supernatural ship. There are true believers (thousands of them) in the ships of various recent boy banders.

    As Sarah Wayne Callies said about movie-making, ‘it is a weird world. It is a beautiful world. We create these intense relationships with people, especially when you’re on location with someone’. Are we supposed to assume that every relationship formed on location is sexual?
    And what about relationships formed under other similar circumstances, like being on an expedition (archaeological or scientific), being on tour, being on a team, even being at war together?
    It has distressed me and more than one friend of mine that all relationships which do not fall into a very traditional paradigm of gender roles have got to be sexualized and forced into them by some people (and it pains me very much to acknowledge that most of these that I know of, are women), both with ‘everyday’ life and with celebrities.

  94. Sorry about the length (as the vicar said to the actress ;-) )

  95. Great post.

    For those who don’t see the rumor mill for other actors, this mania is not uncommon. In fact, one might say that having gay rumors spread about you means you’ve “arrived” as an actor.

    Every actor from George Clooney to Ben Affleck to Matt Damon to Jeremy Renner to Vin Diesel to Zac Efron to etc, etc, etc, has had persistent, long-standing gay rumors + pictures of them hugging/kissing other men. Some respond to those gay rumors and others ignore them or simply say their personal life is personal (sound familiar). Here is a quote from Ryan Seacrest (a person who was so battered by gay rumors that he felt the need to make a statement): “I know a lot of gay males who I work with that are fantastic people and I love hanging out with them. But because I hang out and bring gay men into my life, does that mean that I’m gay? I promise you that I very much love women.”

    Honestly, I feel sorry these people propagating their opinions of RA’s personal life as fact. They must have something missing in their lives and find some solace in obsessing over every tidbit (unconfirmed and otherwise) of RA’s private life. I just wish the anti-social ones would stop abusing the homophobia platform.

  96. Welcome, Sherry. :)

    I just wish you had told us what you really thought LOL

    I hope you know I’m teasing :D

  97. My personal fave of the celeb gay rumors is Gerard Butler. It doesn’t seem to matter how many women he gets caught shagging in a nightclub, there are some who still insist he’s gay. LOL

  98. Surely someone has done a study of these groups who are determined to prove somebody gay. If it were mostly people who are gay wanting to believe that a celebrity is gay, then it would make sense but heterosexual people?

  99. Yes, @Sherry. Those are the ones I was trying to think of, especially Damon and Affleck. You can also add Leo DiCaprio and Tobey Maguire.

  100. The only way an actor can’t be thought gay is if he’s completely unattractive to the majority of people. Then he’s as straight as they come LOL

  101. I tried googling this once @Frenz, but all I got was an article about why women want gay men as real life friends, with a side order of blog comments about why ‘fag hag’ is not a pejorative term. Maybe I don’t have access to the right search engines, or I’m not entering the right terms.

    I have talked about it with my friends over the years, and we could never come to any conclusion about it, just theories. I’d be happy to read some articles if anyone has links.

  102. I don’t have any links but maybe I’ll get a wild hair and Google it. In the meantime, the most common comment I have about this issue from fans when they talk to me an email is this: I hope to God he’s not gay.

  103. And that comment even comes from some people who publicly say they don’t care if he’s gay or they may even say oh yeah that would be great if he were gay. I think this is just a topic that people are still horribly uncomfortable talking about candidly in public for fear of being labeled narrowminded or bigoted or something.

  104. When the truth is it’s completely acceptable for heterosexual women to desire that Richard Armitage not be gay. Why is it a problem to have that desire? They are attracted to him and it seems natural for them to want him to be attracted to women in return.

  105. I guess i’m saying that there is a group of heterosexual women who give lip service to wanting him to be gay when really that’s not how they feel. I also think there’s a group who really does get off on watching men who are gay. This seems very much akin to the men who get off on watching lesbians. Or it seems that way. I could be entirely wrong about this latter group. I’m just speculating about them but I am not speculating about women who say one thing publicly and something entirely different in private. Those women do exist and I have had interaction with them now for several years.

  106. I think biologically, we (heterosexual women) are compelled to hope that a male (especially a genetically pleasing, symmetrical male) is part of the available gene pool, and be curious about him when we aren’t certain. I also think that our territorial, competitive natures can make some of us rather determined to make some males unavailable to other women if we ourselves can’t have them (just as some women have no compunction from taking a man away from his female mate). That may explain why some women are determined to make him gay, while others are determined to keep him straight.

    As for the gay male fans, I suspect there’s is more a sociological need to have powerful, famous, rich or good looking people on their team (not an uncommon reaction when a group of people have be oppressed for a few hundred years). Not to say that their motivation isn’t also attraction.

  107. ‘I also think there’s a group who really does get off on watching men who are gay. This seems very much akin to the men who get off on watching lesbians’
    I am very familiar with this attitude. It seems to be something that is becoming more openly acknowledged, and can be found among women from 18 to 80 (tho I confess the oldest person I know who gets off on it is about 70). It is very often expressed in fandom circles by writing slash. or making slash art about fictional characters. More controversially, it is expressed by writing rps or making rps art. However, there are some who apparently need it to be real, which causes controversy even with those who might also write rps.

  108. It seems obvious to me that these women will say one thing in public and another in private because no one wants to be accused of homophobia (or even heteronormativity) by the people (well, the women, really) who want a celebrity to be gay.

    ‘ I also think that our territorial, competitive natures can make some of us rather determined to make some males unavailable to other women if we ourselves can’t have them’
    I was watching TMZ recently and they asked a female celebrity if it was better if a man cheated on her with a woman or another man, and she replied ‘another man’.
    This is part of the appeal. If you are a fan who worries that the object of your affection will not find you attractive, then making your crush gay means that this can no longer be a concern. You don’t look like Angelina Jolie? Doesn’t matter. He wouldn’t be interested if you did.

  109. Mrs. Darcy, I concur with a lot of what you’re saying!

  110. I think you in and Mrs. Darcy are right about creating the untouchable quality

  111. @Frenz: Someone pointed out to me that a certain key figure in the Richlee shippers posted that she was happy that Lee was gay because she’d never see him kissing another woman in RL. I think that this attitude is kind of implicit in the statements by some people that when Anna Friel kissed LP at SDCC her hand on the side of his face was hiding the fact that they weren’t really kissing. The kiss was obviously a joke, why try to pretend it’s not real, unless your real issue is that you can’t bring yourself to deal with the idea of your crush having physical contact with a woman out of character?

  112. I also think that there are women who just look at gay men as a novelty. I know I kind of look at them that way at times. I don’t get off on looking at or thinking about them having sex, but again, they are interesting. And before anyone asks, yes, I have some friends who are gay. Family members who are gay as well, so people who are gay are not people I have never had any interaction with. I’ve had a lot over the course of my lifetime. My kids have as well. My oldest daughter’s language mentor and someone we have sort of adopted into the family is a gay man who is my age.

  113. And yes, he thinks Richard Armitage, “Goes to my church,” as he put it to me. LOL!!

  114. It’s 3am where I am, and I cannot sleep, and I do not want to start working, which is what I usually do when I cannot sleep. Many, many 3am mornings when I’ve done this because I went to sleep at 10pm and could not sleep more than five hours. That is a curse and can be a blessing too, since I almost always get a jump on the day. But this morning I came back to look at what I said in the my last comments, and they seem insensitive to me. Maybe no one else reads them that way, but I do. I’m not quite sure why.

    I think what I should have said is that the idea of gay men can be a novelty. Individuals are never a novelty to me. Perhaps they are to some people, but I can never view an individual that way. Whenever I encounter someone, it is always to be aware that they have a life, and therefore,they have loves and hates and ideas and obstacles and family and friends and on and on. When I consider that, a person cannot be a novelty. But the idea of a type of person can very much be, and that is what I was referring to.

    With respect to my friend the translator, he acknowledged that Richard Armitage is attractive, and I teased him that it’s only because of this that he made his statement. We have a good natured rivalry, if you will, about this. But none of that has any bearing on the truth of Richard Armitage’s situation which I still do not know and very much doubt I will be trying to ferret out. I haven’t to date. Had some interesting occurrences that made me lean one way or another? Yep. Wondered about it? Absolutely, and I’d be lying to say I hadn’t. But gone to the trouble of building a case by trying to find out facts? No way. For one, I’m too busy personally to engage in that, and I’m glad I’m too busy ’cause I might be fool enough to do something like that. And this brings me to what I think really drives a lot of the “shipping” of people that goes over the line — whether shipping them gay or straight. Boredom drives a lot of it. Maybe not the majority (or maybe; I’m not sure), but it drives a significant part. And I’ll leave this here because that in itself is a subject that I’m not quite up to tackling at 3am and sure as not before I’ve had some caffeine.

  115. ok so you said that 2 men can be friends but RA is gay?

  116. Frenz, great clarification (and impressive without caffeine :)
    My DH can’t sleep more than 5 hrs at a time either- absolutely it’s a blessing and a curse!
    Re: the excessive shipping etc., I hate to see some of the real paparazzi stuff start now that RA is getting better known- and of course also LP. But it probably will. I think America is more of a haven for that than G Britain, so I imagine he should be preparing himself mentally for it, since he expresses commitment to living here. More thoughts but that’s it for now.

  117. Having had experience of watching the domlijahs and viggorlis and J2 shippers and their opponents (not to mention all the fans who hated Elijah Wood’s old gf and hated Evie Lilly when she was Dom Monaghan’s gf and their opponents) try to ferret out the ‘truth’, I think that while that kind of fandom forensics (great phrase!) is fun, it’s going to end up revealing more ‘truth’ about the fans than the actors.
    There are far too many missing pieces.

  118. Frenchcitizen, If you are asking me, that’s not exactly what I was saying. I’m saying two men can be friends and have no idea about RA.

  119. That should say, “I have no idea about RA.”

  120. SH, thanks, I’ve still not had any caffeine. Need to rectify that ’cause i get worse as the days goes on when I’m without it. LOL!

    I don’t know about paparazzi here vs the UK, but since he’s in the U.S. and we know it’s bad here, I feel for the guy. What a pain in the ass. This is one reason I have never gone up to someone famous I’ve seen out eating dinner and asked for anything or even said hello. It seems an invasion of privacy to me. The people that take prying pictures for a living have to be people who are not nice and their consciences were seared over at some point. I’m sure they justify it be saying, “Someone is going to do it.”

    Cill,

    Yep, that’s the point. It says something about the people. As for fandom forensics, I think parts of that can be fun but when it strays into something that is not really public, it’s gone too far. The picture of those two guys sitting on a park bench in public was fair game for the fans to examine. But if someone stood outside either of those guys’ apartments to try to get a pic, that would be out of bounds IMO.

  121. Then again, I may have to define public to be really clear. The supposed pictures of RA eating dinner with LP and his family (or someone’s family) and the golf cart photos were made public, but those appeared to be highly personal, so I would never use them on my site. They are out of bounds to me. Sitting on a park bench, and Lee Pace knowing that he would very possibly be recognized and someone passing by could take a pic and did? Yeah, that’s fair game in my opinion. And I have felt since I first saw that photo, that those two wanted their photo taken.

    While I’m at it, and for the record, I would not publish RA’s home address or link to a site that gave his home address. And there’s one big reason why I wouldn’t do that. I would be livid if someone did that to me. I just couldn’t do that to someone else unless they’re a horrible criminal the law was trying to catch.

  122. well wen u see the pic, u can imagine that they didn’t see the lady taking the photo. But if you’re right, u can imagine they wanted to be outed

  123. Frenchcitizen,

    If you take all of my statements, they mean this: 1) They wanted a pic taken, or it looks that way. 2) It’s possible they are friends only and not trying to out themselves as lovers. Two men sitting on a bench and also hanging out together on a number of occasions does not mean someone is gay. Just as Annabelle Capper hanging out with RA on a number of occasions (including the ITS premiere) does not mean they are in a sexual relationship either. It’s entirely possible they are just friends. 3) (and this one is the most important to me and prompted this post) People are too quick to make an assessment about a huge part of someone’s identity when observing only very small bits of their personal life.

    So no, I wasn’t saying they were outing themselves with respect to being gay. They may have been, but I don’t know that.

  124. @Cill – do you remember where Sarah’s quote below came from? Just curious….thx

    As Sarah Wayne Callies said about movie-making, ‘it is a weird world. It is a beautiful world. We create these intense relationships with people, especially when you’re on location with someone’.

    (As fyi to whoever, when I ask where things come from, I really am not questioning their veracity, I usually just want to check it out :) If I find something doubtful, I usually say so….just sayin’ )

  125. When I’m asked where something came from, I very seldom take that personally, but I think making your statement may be necessary for some.

    As for me, I try to stay out of defensive mode and I’m successful most of the time. It’s too draining, and when people get into a defensive mode, you can’t really have a productive conversation with them.

  126. oh sorry, misunderstanding : it’s not just you who can imagine they’re a couple when we see the pic

  127. I think there is a significant number (could be the majority for all I know) who have decided they are a couple from seeing that pic. I guess I’m saying by this post that I disagree with the “logic” being used to determine that is definitive and with the much more important point being that society does this too often with people.

  128. The thing is (I’m probably nuts I confess) but I’ve been curious about Richards sexlife for a long time, I never am about anyone else, this is crazy and not okay I quess. Because seriously where the fuck is his sexlife, doesn’t he have any. So I like thinking it would be nice if he and Lee had something going on, the poor guy, would be lovely if he finally had someone women ora man. Okay now I need a detective to find Richards sexlife, hehe.

  129. Sorry off topic but does someone know if there will be a DVD of the Crucible and RIII?

  130. I’m starting to hear that no, there won’t be. We’ll see how accurate that is. Maybe some of the other bloggers know. I haven’t asked the Old Vic myself, so I have no first hand knowledge.

  131. I think the curiosity is completely natural especially considering his effect on so many fans. So I hear what you’re saying, and I feel the same way at times, but I have to weigh that curiosity against the reality that he may actually want some privacy and it’s none of our damn business. LOL!

  132. ok thanks. And you’re right he wants some privacy. Tha’s why lots of people speculate on his lovelife

  133. I think you hit on a very real motivation of wanting to see something, and in the absence of anything overt, fans will often cling to what they see. It makes sense when so many of his performances are about love and he’s made so many of us misty eyed at the thought of something romantic.

  134. I agree with Thora. It is not so much wanting to know details about his love and sex life and imagining him in romantic or erotic situations, it is a topic of interest because it is a mystery that has never been solved. If I had found the usual information like married to actress X with three kids, living a quiet life in the country, or even openly gay and living with male partner Y, I would have been content with it and felt no need to even think about it further.

  135. I agree with you Jane. The fact we don’t know anything about his life (or not be certain) don’t content his fans. I’ve just seen a comment on justjared of a girl who is angry bc people say he’s not gay (and she knows better than anybody that he’s in a relatioship with LP??) and vice-versa

  136. I agree that the sometimes mysterious aspect has created this situation, but then again I have to ask myself does it being a mystery justify rabid propagation of what we think is the truth (whatever that is)? Is it fair for the public to do that because they haven’t been satisfied in their knowledge about someone’s private affairs? In other words, to ponder on it and then supply a steady stream of their truth for public consumption? That’s entitlement that is completely out of bounds. Human nature or no human nature, it’s over a line in inviting someone space.

  137. That should say invading someone’s space.

    Also, for the record, I’ve said this about female love interests as well. I’m not comfortable with prying into that or delving into that so much that it it really has the potential to make those people feel uncomfortable.

  138. Mostly, I don’t like the ham-fisted approach to deriving some sort of truth about someone when there are so little facts. I don’t care who we’re talking about. It’s unfair to do that to people. Maybe I’ll feel that way because I’ve. had that done to me, and it’s never pleasant and extremely frustrating

  139. I do agree with you but people are speculating a lot and especially the lives of their idols. We do not endorse but it’s like that

  140. Frenchcitizen,

    However it came about, it’s still not right for the public to decide what’s truth based on almost nothing and to rabidly promote that about someone and it’s especially unfair when it’s an identity that is a big deal for someone to proclaim for themselves. It’s just wrong.

  141. I want it crystal clear where I stand. I think speculation is going to happen. I think that’s human nature. I don’t feel bad because I have speculated at times. What I think is wrong is someone rabidly and antagonistically peddling their version of the truth.

  142. I keep thinking of my days at the newspaper when people would come into the office with a bee in their bonnet over some supposed wrong done by so-and-so, insisting we write a story about it—only there was no actual proof, no viable evidence, it was hearsay, he said and she said stuff, and we were a legit publication, not a tabloid rag. We couldn’t do anything for them. You can’t force a situation to be what you want it to be . . . sometimes you have to accept you just may not ever “know” and learn to mind your own business. It’s fine and natural to be interested, to be curious. Not so fine when you cross the line into invading someone else’s privacy, be they an ordinary person or someone in the spotlight.

  143. I had an interesting conversation with someone last night about ‘entitlement’ vs ‘right to know’ in the context of all types of public figures. We were talking about the idea that people in the public sphere ‘owe’ us some kind of glimpse into their private lives, because ‘we pay their salaries’, either through our taxes or because we are consumers of something they produce. One of the things we pondered was the essential absurdity of such a position when applied to other areas than celebrities.
    For example, if I shop at Target, I am in essence paying the salary of their employees. Does this mean I have the right to demand not only that a Target employee tell me about their relationships, but produce photos of their partners before I believe that they have them? What about my dentist? I can ask to see his diploma, but should I be able to ask to see his wedding license?
    Someone can try to argue that being a celebrity is different, but is it really, if he or she are using the argument that because they go to someone’s concert or movie or play or art show, they have a right to see photos of someone’s children’s birthdays? Why does buying a ticket suddenly grant a person the right to get the lowdown on who they knock boots with?
    And lest someone think these examples are not reflective of what goes on in reality, look at the example of JayZ and Beyonce and the idea that their relationship is ‘corporate’ because they aren’t whoring out the details of their private lives.

  144. I meant to write ‘the lowdown on who the artist knocks boot with’, but grammatically it should have been ‘with whom the artist knocks boots’. :-D

  145. It is really not at all about having the right to know about a celeb’s private life in exchange for buying a ticket or a DVD. I also don’t think you can compare your dentist or a supermarket employee with a celeb. The thing is, your ordinary dentist or salesperson won’t feel the need to hide the fact that they are married or in a serious relationship. Frenz does not hide that she is married and talks freely about her husband and kids. RA’s parents and brother don’t hide that they are married. LP’s brother and his girlfriend freely acknowledge that they are in a relationship on their public facebook accounts. People get married in public ceremonies, wives even take their husband’s name so that everyone knows they are together. People talk about their partners at work, not what they do in bed, but that they go a holiday together, partners occasionally call or turn up after work or attend work related events. It is the most normal thing in the world that this type of information is available.

  146. ‘It is really not at all about having the right to know about a celeb’s private life in exchange for buying a ticket or a DVD.’
    According to some people, it is and it is a pretty common attitude.

    It may be common for certain types of information to be publicly available, but it is hardly universal even among non-celebrities.

    For example, I only found out a colleague of mine was married when he started complaining about his upcoming divorce. I only found out a good friend was in a relationship when we ran into her boyfriend on the street. I only found out one of my profs had 5 children, not 3, when he needed to take time off to look after the younger ones. I have several friends and colleagues who no one know one knows have been married more than once, or even at all. By your definition, are these people not ‘normal’?
    Celebrities *and* non-celebrities have different needs for privacy. I think that trying to make lack of information for a particular situation into ‘proof’ of something else is doomed to failure, and would not be attempted without an agenda.

  147. RA is certainly someone who likes to be a blank sheet in every respect. May it be for the sake of privacy or for the sake of his art. He would never talk about his childhood or his favourite food or take take his relatives to a premier where they could be seen or even photographed. Because the knowledge that he has a little nephew he adores would totally distract from his performance.

  148. I think you are grasping at straws. Talking about your favorite food is not the same as talking about your personal life. RA mostly spoke about his childhood in the same interviews or during the same time period that he spoke about his girlfriends – yet you believe he fabricated one set of stories and not the other.

    As for his family coming to a premiere: name one other premiere or event other than his parents coming to the London premiere of AUJ and his whole family coming to the DoS premiere in Berlin. Show me a photo of Richard’s brother, sister, or mother or father *which has been posed for and where the relative is identified*. There were supposedly photos of RA’s brother and nephew taken by fans, but unlike the families of other stars of TH, they did not pose and the photos were fan photos which were taken down.

  149. He still talked about growing up in Leicester, free music lessons and Stilton cheese and pork pie in a recent interview. And he talked about the influence the Hobbit had on him as child at lot.

  150. If we’re equating discussing life partners/significant others with expressing a preference for stilton cheese, there’s obviously no common ground of discussion.

  151. Oh, Jane! I see you are back on line to play another round of “Let’s Talk about Richard’s Sex Life”. I’ve lurked longer than I’ve been posting on blogs, but I recognize your name as being synonymous with this singular obsession of yours. I have an idea for you. Everyone knows where Richard will be over the next several weeks after each show. Why don’t you stand in line at the stage door and just ask him flat out? Please tell him that his willingness to discuss Stilton cheese and pork pies has indicated his life is an open book and his unwillingness to discuss his private life can only mean he is gay, but you simply MUST KNOW who he is sleeping with. I’m sure that will open his eyes to the fact that he is being a hippocrite by not discussing every personal detail in public.

    What you fail to realize is that unlike a dentist or co-worker, whose revelation of having an SO will not be met with hyper-critical intrusive examination (or perhaps in the case of your co-worker or dentist, Jane, it does), if and when Richard mentions anything about an SO, that person will be subjected to the rigorous scrutiny–and in some cases derision–of people around the globe. He and his SO would never be able to venture out in public (once his temper cools down and he spends thousands of hours assuring his SO not to pay any mind to the garbage), or enjoy any privacy. And forget about children–their photos would be blasted all over the Internet by creepers with smartphones. Little Richard Jr’s every runny nose, soccer goal and temper tantrum would be available for your viewing pleasure. And this is not because Richard would willingly place those close to him in the spotlight, but because in the era of Kardashians, smartphones, Twitter, and a general deterioration of manners and class, the public has never been more intrusive.

  152. I’ve had dialogue with Jane for a long time, and I don’t think it’s a problem for her to say what she thinks and why and to respond to the point of others. The most important thing that Jane has not done and I hope none of us do, is to criticize another fan for their views. Disagree with them? Yes. Question them? Yes. But criticize them personally? No, I haven’t really seen her do that and I just really hate to see that enter a discussion because it inhibits discussion.

    I have talked about people rabidly and antagonistically trying to get their viewpoint across, but Jane falls short of that. At least from what I’ve seen elsewhere.

    Having said all of that, I think all of us are just not going to agree on some things, and I’m totally okay with that.

  153. While I can’t call their names out, lots of actors and other entertainers are very protective of their children being photographed, and sometimes also their SO’s…. I can certainly understand that, with all the nutjobs in the world today. If I were famous, I wouldn’t want that either. I don’t talk about all MY business either, just because it is, after all, MY business.

    Granted, it’s more unusual to refuse to even remark on relationship status…. but actually in that regard, I concur with Cill in having several friends who don’t widely circulate that they have been divorced, for reasons of their own. Several friends have been EXTREMELY discreet about new relationships because of either crazy exes or trying not to confuse their children before it’s clear if this is a “keeper”. What about the famous FB relationship status: “ask me” ….LOL, I’ve never had the balls to do that if I didn’t know already!!

    While none of these examples may specifically apply to RA, I keep defaulting back to treating him as if he were a normal human being – primarily because in spite of looks, talent, fame and fortune, I kind of think he is one…..and probably prefers to be considered such.

  154. well I think it’s clear now. Have you seen Anna Friel’s pic?

  155. Everyone is going to think what they’re going to think, but the picture you’re referencing changes nothing I’ve said. Two guys hanging out could mean something sexual or not.

  156. It is utterly fascinating that two people hanging out and being photographed together are assumed to be in a sexual relationship. But then I’ve already said this. :D

  157. oh no come on. It’s clear now. If they are only good friends, LP would not be still in London. He can come for 1 or 2 weeks but again nowadays, it’s a lot

  158. LOL! I’ve got a mental image of Lee and Richard’s photos leaving a trail of blood in the water.

  159. Frenchcitizen,

    I have to ask. So if that photo means to you that they are in a sexual relationship, where does that leave you as a fan?

  160. hopefully no. But what I don’t like is lie. Why does he still say that he wants to be married and have kids if he’s in a happy relationship with LP? It doesn’t affect his work, he’s still a good actor and not sure his fans drop him.

  161. I don’t think getting married and having kids and being gay are mutually exclusive any longer.

  162. Gay people get married and have families, too. So do bisexual people. It happens. As for me, a fan of seven years, the whole sexuality thing is a giant non-issue. I simply don’t care whether he’s gay, straight, bi or omnisexual as long as he is happy and fulfilled in life, both personally and professionally. I like him, respect him and admire Richard as an actor and a fellow human being. As far as I am concerned, those fans who only followed him because he was the hottie of the month they could fantasize about, and now they want to “drop” him because he’s “deceived” them, won’t be missed. And now I’d better hush before I start blessing people’s hearts. Sorry, Frenz.

  163. you know what I meant. It’s not only in recent interviews,

  164. No worries, Angie.

  165. Well, it is always a pleasure to wake up to pics of Richard and Lee being adorable dorks. I guess they are having a laugh.

  166. I didn’t say that I don’t want to be a fan anymore but it could happen with some of them

  167. Frenchcitizen,

    I didn’t think you were saying you weren’t going to be a fan. And I agree that this could happen and probably will. Also, I am not down on those fans who decide they are not as enamored with Richard Armitage if he is not heterosexual. I think it’s a pitfall of him being a heartthrob. Just goes with the territory, and it’s not a character flaw if someone was drawn to him strictly for that reason and is now turned off if he no longer quite fits that image. I found that this was not the main draw for me.

    I also understand Angie’s points as well, and as far as I’m concerned, I pondered and decided about his sexuality (whatever it is) a long time ago. I’m still here.

  168. Other than all of that, it’s late where I am (almost 2am) and I’ve got to get some shuteye.

  169. ‘Everyone is going to think what they’re going to think, but the picture you’re referencing changes nothing I’ve said. Two guys hanging out could mean something sexual or not.’
    Hanging out with a girl one of them is kissing in two other photos from the same set. (I knew she would become invisible. I just didn’t know how fast).

  170. Have to say Lee has been seeing Crucible a lot of times shouldn’t he get bored soon. And the pictures from Anna Friel omg so cute.

  171. @Frenz goodnight here in France it’s almost 11am.
    @Cill : I think my english is not good enough to understand your meaning

  172. Anna and Lee are very good freinds and like to joke around in front of cameras. Doesn’t prevent them from having other boyfriends, LOL. I guess that proves the point that a picture is not always what it seems.

  173. don’t worry Jane, I think everybody has understood that LP & RA are in a happy relationship :)

  174. Whatever the nature of their relationship, I’m never going to know RA or LP personally. I’m primarily interested in both of their work, but recognise their obvious physical attraction as people. Tall, handsome, emotionally intelligent men with deep voices…what’s not to like? They both have a work ethic I admire, and I can see why they have a personal connection. From interviews etc. they both come across as incredibly likeable people, and the kind of people I kind of fondly wish happiness for in their own lives. Whether they have a life together or not is no concern of mine, unless they wish to make it public. The only person’s intimate life I’m concerned with is my husband’s.

    Interestingly for me, RA and LP were interchangeably my top two favourite actors (RA since N&S) even before I became aware of the rumours about them. Now, it’s great for me that they’re spending so much time together, as it’s easier to keep tabs on what they’re up to (professionally, and in a non-stalkerish way!) To clarify, through following one’s work, the other’s latest/next project invariably gets mentioned. I can actually understand why they might be reluctant to appear together, and be seen as a couple (if indeed they are one), as people will invariably focus on the two of them as a romantic couple (I’m thinking Hobbit publicity events). As both of them are so passionate about their work as individual actors, I get the impression they would hate their relationship to detract from that.

    It was very sweet to hear LP mention RA during one of his Comic-Con interviews alongside Cate Blanchett. When asked what was the coolest thing he’d seen so far, he replied that he had seen a little child dressed up as Thorin and then added “and our Thorin is in London, Richard’s in London right now doing a play”.

    If they are together as a couple (which I’m beginning to think is the case, given LP’s penchant for RA’s current work project – it’s a hell of a long way to keep just popping by to see your friend’s play…repeatedly! ), they both have impeccable taste and I wish them every happiness while I continue to enjoy their work.

  175. Frenchcitizen, if RA is gay, for him to out himself is not some inconsequential thing. It would affect his career. Even though some of the most powerful people in showbiz are openingly gay–ie David Geffen, Scott Rudin–they are behind the camera. In front of the camera it’s a bit more complicated. And I’m not talking about losing fangirls. It changes the game if you out yourself.

    RA’s sexual orientation and private life is the least interesting thing to me about him. In any case the mystery of those things only adds to my admiration of him. He gives so much as performer that he needs somethings of himself to himself. This speaks of more than wanting privacy but a hold onto a vital sense of self.

  176. The possibility that he could be negatively impacted is one reason I would never make the summation he’s gay based on the photos and circumstances that have been presented.It’s too big a part of someone’s identity and has too big an effect on other people for me to casually do that to him or anyone. He’s going to have to tell us he is or do something so demonstrative that it’s obvious before it will become the reality of how I think and speak of him.

  177. Sorry but being outed by others is not the good thing to do. If you go on social networks, you can see that lots of fans are angry bc they think he lied to them. So, if he’s gay (which is a fact atually), he has to say it even if I know it’s difficult and could affect his career. But I think he gonna lose more fans if he didn’t say anything. And I repeat again, his homosexuality won’t affect the admiration I have for him as an actor.

  178. “So, if he’s gay (which is a fact atually)” –
    Huh? Based on what? A picture, in which the same instagram set has 2 pics of Lee Pace kissing and hugging up on Anna F?
    If those pics don’t mean anything (granted, they probably don’t, those 2 worked together for 2 years), then how can the picture of the 3 of them mean anything definitive? That’s what this whole post is about!!

  179. LP & AF made lots of pictures of them kissing, even when they were filming pushing daisies. ANd sorry but LP is in London in july and august, it’s more than friendship to me; and it’s MY opinion, you’ve got the right to disagree but not to being unpleasant

  180. “I think he gonna lose more fans if he didn’t say anything. ” frenchcitizen

    He owes us nothing. Why should we expect him to explain anything to us? Each of us are fans in our own way and we are invested in him in our unique way, so he will never satisfy all of us, regardless of what he does. Our presumptuous demands for him to out himself really are based on our own desires and lack of tolerance for ambiquity. If we really care about RA, we would let him be.

  181. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean at all to sound unpleasant…. I’m in agreement with you that those pics don’t mean LP and AF are a couple. And I understand what you’re saying about LP being in London in July & August, I really do. The only thing I DO have an issue with, is stating their relationship is a fact vs. an opinion….”it’s more than friendship to me” is a great statement of opinion, I have no problem with that. Are we OK? :)

  182. yes he owes us nothing but human nature is made like this. Once again, I don’t care if he’s gay or straight or bi… lots of fans are very angry bc they think he lied to them. So maybe an explaination is better than saying nothing at all and let friends make his coming out. I don’t know maybe I’m wrong or not

  183. @SH everything is ok

  184. I guess for those of us who have considered the possibility for a long time and considered that he might have lied to protect his career it is less of an issue. For someone that did stick to the idea that he’s a honest person who wouldn’t even lie if his his career is at stake and there for did take his word for the absolute truth, I can imagine that it hurts. But almost every gay men has been closeted once and lied.

    Truly, all those pics and sightings only make me smile and nothing else.

  185. @Jayma, before there was any hint of a relationship between the two men (friendship or romantic), I posted at my blog about Lee being cast in TH and how much I liked him as an actor and person and felt he and RA would get along well. Guess I was right. I do admire, like and respect each of them very much and I am in the same position as you—the only person’s intimate life I need to be concerned with is my husband’s. Wanting to dig and delve into someone else’s is distasteful for me personally. To each his or her own, I guess.


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